[conlang_learners] Date and manner of voting and announcing results

[Jim Henry]

I'm forwarding the more relevant parts of an offlist conversation I
had with Padraic Brown while the listserv was unavailable.  A short
summary:

1. 17 September, the feast day of St. Hildegard of Bingen, would be a
good date for announcing the results of the vote and starting to learn
the chosen language.

2. The vote counters ought to post detailed results of the IRV
vote-counting process, probably on FrathWiki, as the Hugo Award
vote-counting committee does after the award ceremony at WorldCon.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jim Henry <jimhenry1973 at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 4:59 PM
Subject: Re: Problems with conlang.org???
To: Padraic Brown <elemtilas at yahoo.com>
Cc: Philip Newton <philip.newton at gmail.com>


On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 8:22 AM, Padraic Brown<elemtilas at yahoo.com> wrote:

>> 4. Once the volunteers are satisfied they've counted the
>> votes
>> accurately, they'll announce the results to the
>> conlang_learners
>> mailing list (and perhaps in other places; see below).

> I'd like to see the results broken down by language. Perhaps Philip could edit the Short List on the Wiki by placing the number of votes next to each language. That would also serve as a final and public check against any likely fraud.

The results of an IRV vote counting process are more complicated than
that; they should probably go on a separate wiki page.  Here are the
detailed vote counting breakdowns for the 2004 Hugo Awards, which use
essentially the same system we'll use (but with a shortlist of 5
candidates instead of about 25, and a special "no award test" rule
that doesn't apply to our situation):

http://www.noreascon.org/hugos/hugodetails.html

>> 5. If we already have permission to use the chosen conlang,
>> we'll dive
>> in and start using it.   If not, we'll
>> contact the conlang's creator,
>> and if we don't get permission, we'll go to the runner-up
>> from the

> I think this issue should be fully resolved well in advance of the election. My opinion only, but if the conlang's creator can't be contacted before the election, that language should be taken off the list and any votes for it should be nullified.

Well, perhaps we should start contacting all eleven (I think) conlang
creators whose conlangs have been nominated but haven't given
permission yet.  Do you want to volunteer to start doing that?  I'll
talk to Taliesin and Tony Harris; I don't have regular contact with
the others.


>> Does that suit everyone?  In particular, does the date
>> range for
>> voting suit everyone (I'm a little concerned that it
>> includes a major
>> U.S. holiday weekend) and does the date range for vote

> Not really a "major holiday" like Thanksgiving or Christmas, but a number of people do take end of summer vacations at that time. It would probably be best to avoid that weekend. I'd still prefer the election to take place around 17 September.

Why that date in particular?

I'm reluctant to delay the vote; we announced back in June that we'd
vote at the beginning of September, and a few weeks ago there was some
talk about starting sooner than September.  I think you're the only
one who's wanted to start later.

--
Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Padraic Brown <elemtilas at yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 5:53 PM
Subject: Re: Problems with conlang.org???
To: Jim Henry <jimhenry1973 at gmail.com>
Cc: elemtilas at yahoo.com

> > Not really a "major holiday" like Thanksgiving or
> Christmas, but a number of people do take end of summer
> vacations at that time. It would probably be best to avoid
> that weekend. I'd still prefer the election to take place
> around 17 September.
>
> Why that date in particular?

Feast day of St. Hildegard of Bingen. (Unofficial) patron saint of
conlangers and one of the first "published" conlangers whose opus is
Lingua Ignota. L.I. has gotten a couple mentions on the list I think,
but obviously she can't be contacted via the normal avenues available.

> I'm reluctant to delay the vote; we announced back in June
> that we'd
> vote at the beginning of September, and a few weeks ago
> there was some
> talk about starting sooner than September.  I think
> you're the only
> one who's wanted to start later.

I certainly think voting sooner than September is jumping the gun. I
don't think mid-September is delaying too long, especially given the
amount of discussion that has gone on. Thus far, it looks like
Sambahsa has stolen the stage. Only about 30 to go, and if the vote is
scheduled for 1 September, then that means 2 meaningful appraisals and
discussions have to happen each day for the next two weeks!



---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Jim Henry <jimhenry1973 at gmail.com>
Date: Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: Problems with conlang.org???
To: Padraic Brown <elemtilas at yahoo.com>


On Mon, Aug 17, 2009 at 5:53 PM, Padraic Brown<elemtilas at yahoo.com> wrote:

>> I'd still prefer the election to take place
>> around 17 September.
>>
>> Why that date in particular?

> Feast day of St. Hildegard of Bingen. (Unofficial) patron saint of conlangers and one of the first "published" conlangers whose opus is Lingua Ignota. L.I. has gotten a couple mentions on the list I think, but obviously she can't be contacted via the normal avenues available.

Well, I'll see what I can do about a novena for her intercession for
the success of the project.

If we start by September 3 and allow people a week to send in their
votes, though, and a week for the volunteers to count votes and
contact the creator of the winning conlang if they haven't already
given permssion for use of their language, then the vote counters
could announce the results of the vote on St Hildegard's feast day.


> I certainly think voting sooner than September is jumping the gun.

Definitely, at this point, although if we'd gotten organized more
quickly we might have started a week or two ago.

--
Jim Henry
http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/