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<br><br> Here are some more lists, you probably already know:<br><br> A list from wikipedia: <a href="http://http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_de_langues_construites">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_constructed_languages</a><br><br> The Janko Gorenc's collection of number (It's interesting to catch quickly what the language looks like): <a href="http://janko.gorenc.googlepages.com/collectionnumbers">http://janko.gorenc.googlepages.com/collectionnumbers</a><br><br> The list of Arika Okrent's "in the land of invented language": <a href="http://inthelandofinventedlanguages.com/index.php?page=languages">http://inthelandofinventedlanguages.com/index.php?page=languages</a><br><br> Omniglot's Conscripts <a href="http://www.omniglot.com/writing/conscripts.htm">http://www.omniglot.com/writing/conscripts.htm</a><br><br> some other things here: <a href="http://cals.conlang.org/">http://cals.conlang.org/</a> (by the way, this related site is amazing: <a href="http://wals.info/">http://wals.info/</a>)<br><br> That's all I have. :)<br><br><br><hr id="stopSpelling">Date: Mon, 15 Jun 2009 03:48:19 -0700<br>From: cafaristeir@yahoo.com<br>To: conlang_learners@conlang.org<br>Subject: Re: [conlang_learners] Welcome, and some proposals for what conlang to learn<br><br><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="font-family: inherit; font-style: inherit; font-variant: inherit; font-weight: inherit; font-size: inherit; line-height: inherit; font-size-adjust: inherit; font-stretch: inherit; -x-system-font: none;" valign="top"><div>Hi ! </div>
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<div>Here is a French list of auxlangs: </div>
<div><a href="http://www.europalingua.eu/ideopedia/index.php5?title=Id%C3%A9olangues_auxiliaires">http://www.europalingua.eu/ideopedia/index.php5?title=Id%C3%A9olangues_auxiliaires</a></div>
<div> </div>
<div>Olivier</div>
<div><a href="http://sambahsa.pbworks.com/">http://sambahsa.pbworks.com/</a> <br><br>--- On <b>Mon, 6/15/09, Jim Henry <i><jimhenry1973@gmail.com></i></b> wrote:<br></div>
<blockquote style="border-left: 2px solid rgb(16, 16, 255); padding-left: 5px; margin-left: 5px;"><br>From: Jim Henry <jimhenry1973@gmail.com><br>Subject: Re: [conlang_learners] Welcome, and some proposals for what conlang to learn<br>To: conlang_learners@conlang.org<br>Date: Monday, June 15, 2009, 2:54 AM<br><br>
<div class="EC_plainMail">2009/6/15 Brett Williams <<a href="http://us.mc574.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mungojelly@gmail.com">mungojelly@gmail.com</a>>:<br>> 2009/6/12 Jim Henry <<a href="http://us.mc574.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jimhenry1973@gmail.com">jimhenry1973@gmail.com</a>>:<br>>> Some well-developed conlangs we might consider include:<br><br>> You seem to have already posted my short list! (Well, I'm not<br>> actually that familiar with Itlani, but I've heard good things about<br>> it.) I'm interested of course by the depth of an Alurhsa or the<br>> strangeness of a Kºlen, but there's also something to be said for the<br>> humble simplicity and earnestness of a Vabungula.<br><br>I'd add Arthaey's Asha'ille (which apparently has over twenty short<br>texts on the website, more than most conlangs -- my gzb has a
larger<br>corpus, but Asha'ille has a much larger proportion of its corpus<br>already online ready for potential students to read, whereas most of<br>gzb's corpus is too private to share, and most of what isn't<br>inherently private, I've been too lazy to transcribe and HTMLize) and<br>maybe Roger Mills' Kash as well, depending on how many more texts are<br>available than are on its website at the moment.<br><br><br>>> It would also be possible to use this project to take a moribund but<br>>> fairly well developed conlang and (with its creator's permission, if<br>>> they're still alive and contactable) revive it, adding to its lexicon<br>>> and further specifying its grammar as necessary.<br><br>> I had a thought, though I'm not sure if it's a good one, that we could<br>> choose to revive the Lingua Ignota.<br><br>I see a few ways we could do it:<br><br>(a) Use it as Hildegard apparently did, embedding LI words into
Latin<br>texts, and inflecting the LI words (all of which are nouns) with Latin<br>case endings.<br><br>(b) Like A, but embedding LI words into English or other modern<br>natlangs and/or conlangs and inflecting them according to the nominal<br>morphology of the matrix language.<br><br>(c) Keep the LI noun list as it is, reverse-engineer its phonotactics,<br>coin another couple of thousand words in other grammatical categories<br>with the same phonotactics and Wortgefül, and devise a grammar for<br>this neo-LI.<br><br>Any of those would be interesting, the last most of all, but I'm not<br>sure it's within the mandate of this project. If we're going to<br>revive a moribund conlang and learn it while expanding it a bit and<br>filling in gaps, I'd prefer it to be one that was more fully developed<br>by its original creator or creative team, so the resulting neo-conlang<br>owes a lot more to the original than to us. Vorlin, Ilomi or
Kalusa<br>would work for that, I think, and perhaps Adelic; not sure about<br>Voksigid, whose grammar I like but whose vocabulary, or at least the<br>surviving documentation of which, is really small.<br><br><br>> We perhaps ought to give a little thought to what criteria, other than<br>> pure personal preference, are most appropriate to apply here. I've<br><br>> I feel a sure sign of success would be if we could develop a<br>> continuing, fluent population of speakers for the chosen language,<br>> however small. I would like to see us accomplish that especially in<br><br>That would be the best possible outcome, yes. I hope that we'll pick<br>something viable enough that some years from now some of us are still<br>using said conlang, new people have learned it who weren't part of<br>this project originally, the majority of the extant corpus was written<br>by someone other than the conlang's creator, and there
are competing<br>theories about how the language actually works, which cite actual<br>usage more often than the original defining documents.<br><br>> I don't think we have to choose something<br>> simplistic in order to accomplish that goal, though-- I personally am<br>> committed to a serious study of the language we choose, and I think<br>> there are others here who feel the same way. More important I would<br>> think is that the language be a suitable medium for a real<br>> conversation that we want to have, that it be useful to us. A<br>> language that's a toy or unripe, we'll play with but then just put<br>> away.<br><br>Yes. It's important that the language have seen enough use by its<br>creator to show that it actually works for a range of uses, and that<br>it be well enough documented (or have a creator willing to expand the<br>documentation and answer lots of questions) that other people
can<br>actually learn it. Unless it already has a pretty large vocabulary,<br>it would also be best if the conlang's creator is open to other people<br>coining new words, if only by following the rules of the derivational<br>morphology using existing roots and derivational processes.<br><br>Another way to look at it, in terms of ecological sociolinguistics,<br>is: what conlangs currently enjoy a certain amount of mindshare and<br>have people learning and using them? And is there some ecological<br>niche that isn't filled yet by one of the conlangs that already has a<br>speaker community? Or if not, could a conlang that gets a boost in<br>popularity from this project compete with one of the existing<br>conlangs-with-speakers for new speakers on its own terms?<br><br>In the niche of "conlang associated with a fictional nonhuman<br>culture", for instance, there's Klingon. Klingon has massive<br>advantages in
publicity, but Kºlen, for instance, if we learned it and<br>produced a larger corpus and so forth, would have important advantages<br>too: it's more euphonious, and also more truly alien in its grammar.<br><br>In the niche of "auxlang that's relatively easy for Europeans and not<br>terribly difficult for non-Europeans", there's already Esperanto, Ido,<br>Interlingua, and maybe others. There may be other auxlang ecological<br>niches that aren't filled yet (e.g. "worldlang" by any of several<br>definitions), but I'm dubious.<br><br>Similarly, I doubt a new mini-auxlang or engelang with minimalist<br>vocabulary and grammar could grow much with the niche already firmly<br>occupied by Toki Pona. If it did, it might do so by starting out even<br>more minimalist than TP, with a goal of gradually growing in<br>complexity based on use and decisions by the speaker community until<br>it's maybe twice or three times larger than TP (we
discussed something<br>like this on the CONLANG list recently).<br><br>As for "engelang that's more precise and unambiguous than natlangs and<br>which might or might not violate real human language universals, we<br>won't know until more people try to speak it", Lojban occupies that<br>spot with little real competition AFAIK, but I think Ithkuil or Ilaksh<br>are different enough to potentially compete in that niche or a nearby<br>one too.<br><br>What about the niche of "artlang with a unique mix of features but not<br>violating any human langauge universal, associated with a fictional<br>human culture"? Quenya and Sindarin, maybe, but they're so<br>under-documented and the communities using them are so divided by<br>arguments about what kind of reconstruction of unattested words and<br>grammatical forms is and isn't legitimate that a newer,<br>better-documented artlang with a creator who's still alive to answer<br>questions might
compete there too.<br><br>Better still would be recognizing a niche that isn't filled yet at<br>all, and an existing conlang with few or no speakers that could<br>potentially fill it.<br><br>-- <br>Jim Henry<br><a href="http://www.pobox.com/%7Ejimhenry/">http://www.pobox.com/~jimhenry/</a><br>_______________________________________________<br>conlang_learners mailing list<br><a href="http://us.mc574.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=conlang_learners@conlang.org">conlang_learners@conlang.org</a><br><a href="http://lists.conlang.org/listinfo.cgi/conlang_learners-conlang.org">http://lists.conlang.org/listinfo.cgi/conlang_learners-conlang.org</a><br></div></blockquote></td></tr></tbody></table><br><br /><hr />Découvrez toutes les possibilités de communication <a href='http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowslive/default.aspx' target='_new'>avec vos proches</a></body>
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