[conlang_learners] Thoughts

Sat Jun 13 04:37:15 PDT 2009

Well, I agree there's a part of subjectivity; but I durst emit such oinion, it's because I had used it a few years ago. On the contrary, some people compared Sambahsa with Sindarin (for me too, Sindarin is the most beautiful artlang) though I had not taken "beauty" as an objective... 
More seriously, Adelic uses many letters that aren't available on most keyboards; furthermore, I regret the phonetic laws its creator has followed: they neither match the original IE nor the forms found in most Germanic languages, making words harder to understand and remember. Finally, I doubt whether the vocabulary is developped enough (there may have been changes since my own experience)...

Here is "Our Father": 
in Adelic: 
Unzr Battr gwä tä iss inne jimmnet,
Se duur naamn gælge tä iss.
Prenke de duur richtoom,
Mach de duur villi,
Aan øtet alz izz tä iss inne jimmnet.
Brymme unz de unzr praut bø møknet,
Unte bøkeen de unzr sunger alz viiz tä bøkeen de andreres 
sunger.
Unte laiþ naft unz azz bølooþrunging,
Bølaus græzz unz braam uppling;
Sidde gende tä iss de duur richtoom, unte de duur maggn, unte 
de duur vøskapp, æf.
O, skai.

Here, a text written by me in Frenkish: 
-          Ick ferstai jur spraik goud, antwohrd is in id sam lingua; doch kunne feu autlanders dat. Hwairfor dann, infall ji wunsche en replik, ji spreke nejt in de Gemeinspraik, als is de sid in de West? 
-          De will af Kuning Theoden is dat neimann overschryd syn porten, auten dis dat kunne onser spraik ond aire onser frienden, jawieb oin iom guardes. Aire wellkommen in krygtyd einig de onsren ond dis, dat komme aut Mundburg in Gondorland. Hwei aire ji, ji dat komme sorgleus over de folde, bekleided so bizarr ond rydend op rossen dat aire gelykardig an onser? Wi staie de wacht her siden lang mail, ond wi have feuld ju fra ferr. 
Neimail have wi sejen so merkwerdig ander ryders, noch en ross heuchmoudiger als ein af dis dat bere ju. Ett is ein af de Mearas, infall onser euges aire nejt bedrogen siden en hwyl. Nejt scholde ji wese en magiker, en spion af Saruman oder spouken boren fon syn listen? Sprek nu! Dou quick!
-          Wi aire nejt spouken, iey Aragorn, ond jur euges bedriege ju nejt. Fordat, indedaid, wi ryde jur eigen rossen, als ji witt’ ett goud, eidoch befor stelle de fraig, ick tenk. Doch komm en tiev selden tourugg tou de stall. Her aire Hasufel ond Arod, dat Eomer, Tride Marschal af de Mark, ha leind tou ons; eirst twei dagen befor. Wi bringe deim tourugg nu, in eindracht mid onser ferspreking. Nejt ha doch Eomer kommen tourugg ond warnd om onser herwesing? 
Un embarasset wajkh buit viden ep iom guarde. 
-          Om Eomer, ha ick nejts tou sege, is jawieb. Ov hwat ji sege tou mi is wair, dann schall seker Theoden have heurd dairom. Magschej dat jur komming was nejt follkommen onwajted. Eirst twei nachten befor ha Wormtong kommen sege tou ons dat, per Theodens will, nein fremd mann meucht overschryde de porten. 
-          Wormtong? Iey Gandalf, scrutend id lige ios guarde. T’is genoug! Nejt by Wormtong, doch by de Heirr af de Mark selv mout ick doue! Ick ha ett haastig! Nejt scholde ji gaie oder sende sege dat wi have ankommen? Eis okwi twiseer sub sien teug brovs, menxu is clih sien spect ep iom wir. 
-          Ja, ick schall gaie, antwohrd is lent-ye. Doch hwilk namen schal ick geve? Ond hwat schal ick sege om ju? Ji tunke nu ald ond gematted, ond doch ji aire aut onden kraftig ond gefairlik, mitunk. 
-          Ji sege ond seje rejtig, antwohrd is magician, fordat ick is Gandalf. Ick ha kommen tourugg. Ons sej! Ick euk bring en ross tourugg. Her is Graiwhair de Greut, dat nein ander hand schold kunne dressire. 
Ond her is naij mi Aragorn Arathornson, de erver af Kunings, ond hi gai tou Mundburg. 
Her aire euk Legolas de Elf ond Gimli de Dwerg, onser kameraden. Gai mi, ond seg tou jur mejster dat wi staie an syn porten ond dat wi scholde gern onderhalde ons mid him, infall hi lait ons gaie in syn borg. 
Seldsam aire de namen dat ji geve tou mi, seker! Doch schal ick overgeve deim als ji have beden mi dairom, ond ick schal witte hwat is de will af myn mejster, iey is guarde. Wajt her en hwyl, ond ick schal bringe tou ju de replik dat hi schal deume goed tou geve tou mi. Nejt hopp tou mannig! Wi gaie over duuster dagen

and, here the Our Father in Sambahsa: 
Le Notre Père en sambahsa (écoutez-le! http://tts.imtranslator.net/1Jci ):
Pater noster in warwn / Saint estu tieno nam / Gwehmtu tien rig / Kwohrt bihtu tien vol / Tem dighomi quem in warwn/ Dah nos hoyd nies dvan tos dien / Indeulg nos niesa skeulsa kam weyschi / indeulgmos im qui skeule dia nos / Mae submittas nos in tentation / sontern leuder nos ud khitert / Tien ghi sont rig, stieure ed klewos in aiwa iom aiwa / Amen.

Olivier
http://sambahsa.pbworks.com/ 

--- On Sat, 6/13/09, Eugene Oh <un.doing at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Eugene Oh <un.doing at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [conlang_learners] Thoughts
To: conlang_learners at conlang.org
Date: Saturday, June 13, 2009, 1:23 AM

We probably shouldn't use such subjective criteria in judging the conlangs we have here. "Ugly" and "well-made" differ from person to person, and are potentially insulting.

Eugene

2009/6/13 Olivier Simon <cafaristeir at yahoo.com>

Sellamat James ! 

I remember Adelic; I found it looked so ugly that I had planned to use it as a "Black Speech" for Role Playing Games ! 
A well-made Germanic auxlang is Frenkish by David Parke:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/frenkisch/

Olivier
http://sambahsa.pbworks.com/ 

--- On Fri, 6/12/09, James Montgomery <dreamripple at yahoo.com> wrote:

I agree that it shouldn't be an Auxlang. There are already some established. They really aren't in danger of going away any time soon. Personally, too many are Euroclones.

I think that the first shouldn't be too terribly difficult, either. I think it would be better to work with one that's very manageable in a small amount of time. This will allow for fine-tuning and getting systems set-up for the following conlangs... Which leads me into...

I believe we should also place weight on being able to modify the language. Even if it's with first getting approval from the creator, having one too rigid and archaic, without being able to...update it would seem like the best way to go. For preservation, yes. For practical use, no. Surely we can find a balance.

An example of a language I've looked at seriously in the past was Adelic http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Station/6297/index.html I has a combination of things going for it, but also has some pitfalls. The largest being that this is the only page left for Adelic that has the whole corpus available to the public.

I was Adelic's plight that led me to eventually find this group. Pages are going down. Authors can't be contacted, repositories are fading away, and I see this as almost as much of a loss as losing a unique Natlang. I'm not trying to be melodramatic, simply trying to point out what we all see happening.

I'll be trolling your posts!

James C. Montgomery
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